Wednesday, 20 October 2010

Pit of Shades vs Steam Tank

I've seen this question on a few forums, and here are my own thoughts...

In the Empire FAQ it says "Does the spell Pit of Shades affect the Steam Tank? - No" This is pretty clear cut and simple, but a lot of people are saying it's a hangover from when spells without a given strength value couldn't effect the steam tank. I think this unlikely. For starters, that line of text has survived two FAQ revisions since 8th edition, and STILL it remains. So I think it's meant to be there.

As for the explanation as to WHY it should still be there...

From a fluff point of view, Pit of Shades is a bunch of spectral hands reaching up trying to drag your soul to hell. If you don't pass an initiative test to dodge their grasping fingers, you die. Now the steam tank isn't exactly great at dodging it has to be said, but while those spectral hands may be able to grasp it easily - so what? It's a massive lump of metal! They're not exactly going to do much to stop that! They're not going to drag the steam tanks immortal soul down to a place of eternal torment... so the tank has good reason to be immune.

From a game mechanics point of view, if Pit of Shades effected the steam tank it would be devastating to it. Most spell lores have a super spell at number 6 that can really put the hurt on opponents. Purple Sun is a good example - that would, and will, annihalate a steam tank. But it's a tough spell to get off. If Pit of Shades was as strong as Purple sun (and what's more without the risk of Purple Sun of rolling a misfire) then that puts a level 5 spell as better than a level 6 - which kinda defeats the point. That's why I think Pit doesn't affectt eh steam tank - to keep it from being just TOO good a spell!

Anyway, as long as that's on the FAQ I have written backup for my point of view regardless of any arguments :oP but I'm more than happy to hear your opinions... after all, if they do change it next time they redo the FAQs you get to say "I told you so..." but only if your comment is written here first - no belatedly claiming you "thought so" ;oP


  1. I'd agree with you, however I know sweet FA about fantasy so my vote probably counts precious little

  2. The new FAQ always overwrites old ones so if its still there its for a reason. simular thing came up with dan as they have taken away the rule you can climb to the bell and cast magic missile in combat with skaven he didnt believe me that you couldnt but he had the last version of FAQ and now the new one doesnt have it, so he can still cast spells from the bell just not DD and magic missiles but benefits from the bells LOS. Also the characteristic thing i read the other day im gona ask about in GW as seems bit weird even though dan reads it the same as i did, but im thinking the rule may have been meant for idividual tests not spells that hit "every" model meaning it litterally hits every model and uses its own stats.

  3. Having had time to think about it, I think that regarding that one, if the unit is called upon to take A SINGULAR strength or toughness test, yes use the highest in the unit. However, a spell like dwellers below requires every MODEL to take a str test... in which case each tests on it's individual stats. In this way my heroes have a better chance of surviving than my line troops, but more to lose.

    As for that singular test for the unit, well if he insists the bell counts as a seperate unit for targetting purposes, then in that case the singular test should be taken using the highest Str or T in the targetted unit. So if you targetted the unit with Net of Amontyk then they'd take a test at str 3 - the rat ogre is on the bell so wasn't targetted. Technically that would mean the bell could leave the unit... except it can't go without the unit :oP He'll still be able to cast spells unhindered but at least it stops the thing moving closer, getting into combat etc.

  4. unless the skaven book overwrites this if you read the rules for chars and units it says a character joining a unit counts as a single unit for rules purposes, bow you can target the bell individually due to its size but technically the grey seer is part of the unit as you cant target him per say although you can hit him with the randomise. Now this also happens with corpse carts, as a corpse cart counts as a ridden monster "technically" but your allowed to put it in a unit and so the necromancer is part of the unit but the corpse cart is of a different unit type so you can target it seperatly!!! Its unusual as the rules changes havent taken into account some of the current models as they were made with 7th Ed in mind. Also Im annoyed that they havent done an update for all books adjusting points as alot of armies have units that cost more than they should paying for rules that either dont exist or you get as standard anyway. Means in 2k Fantasy now I really cant vary my list as much as Id like due to the over price of my special units, 35pts for standard Cav who have stupidity, ridiculous

  5. How about my greatswords with their excellent "stubborn" ability... waaaaiiiit a minute :oP

  6. As an update - GW FAQ update has got rid of the FAQ in question, therefore Pit of Shades DOES kill the steam tank. Making yet another spell that can instant kill the thing. Reducing it's survivability even more. Bugger. I now have two metal models I doubt I will EVER use. One is unpainted, may have to dissassemble it try to sell it on ebay. Hell if I get half price for it I can buy myself a box of something useful! :oP